When I found out that Fabienne and Benoît were embarking upon a new adventure in their life of backpacking around the world, I just had to interview them for a second time.
Who are Fabienne and Benoît from Novo-Monde?
Fabienne and Benoît are two Swiss people who left to travel around the world in 2012.
This decision changed the course of their lives.
I came across them through their blog Novo-Monde, when I was also dreaming of doing a similar thing.
And as they’re Swiss, that made it all a bit more special.
Then, by chance (in fact not, as I created this chance!), I contacted Benoît to arrange meeting up for a coffee as two Swiss bloggers.
This was at the end of 2015. We met in the bar of a station in Romandie. And I then interviewed him for the first time on the blog on the subject of location independence.
Since then, we’ve always kept in touch, though irregularly.
Then, when I saw that they were launching a coliving space in Switzerland during 2023, I wrote to him to set up a new interview, of which here is the result.
Video with Fabienne and Benoît
Transcription of the video
If you prefer to read rather than watch the video, then here’s the transcription of my interview with the cofounders of Novo-Monde and Alpiness Coliving.
In light of the length, I’ve taken the liberty of summarizing some parts via ChatGPT :)
1. Can you introduce yourselves?
We both grew up in Switzerland, followed a traditional academic path, and started fairly conventional careers. I (Fabienne) studied statistics and econometrics, while Benoît completed a PhD in digital biomechanics. After our studies, we had our first expatriation experience in Vienna, where Benoît was doing his PhD, and I was working at a startup.
But soon, we felt the need to move even more. We decided to embark on a 19-month trip around the world. At the time, I was worried about how it would look on my CV, but in the end, the experience completely changed our perspective on work and life. It was also during this journey that our blog was born—originally just to share our travels with family and friends.
When we returned, we took jobs in Switzerland, but the corporate experience, especially for me, turned out to be frustrating. I ended up in burnout, and that’s when we decided to leave Switzerland and become self-employed. We first started building websites while continuing to grow our blog, which eventually became our main source of income.
We fell in love with the digital nomad lifestyle. We spent several years between Europe and Asia but quickly realized that finding a good place to live and work wasn’t always easy. That’s when we discovered colivings, particularly during a stay in Tenerife, where we had our first experience as volunteers in a coliving space. We immediately connected with the concept—a place where you can work efficiently, be surrounded by like-minded people, and avoid the isolation of remote work.
Since 2018, we’ve spent nearly 50% of our time in coliving spaces, and the idea of opening our own quickly became obvious. What impressed us the most was the impact a coliving space can have on a small village. In Galicia, for example, we saw a community of remote workers developing social and tech projects to help the local area.
Today, we have found our ideal place—in the heart of the mountains.
2. The Paradeplatz in Zurich or the jet d’eau in Geneva?
We are not made for city life, whether it’s Paradeplatz or the Jet d’Eau in Geneva. The urban rhythm doesn’t suit us. Personally, I have always preferred quieter places, while you used to be more of a city person. But today, we both agree: the city is too far from nature.
To be happy, we need to be able to start a hike right from our doorstep. This morning, for example, we went skiing for three hours before recording a podcast. That’s the kind of quality of life that, for us, is impossible to find in the city. So if we had to choose between the two… we wouldn’t choose either.
3. Which is the book you have gifted most often?
I tend to listen to podcasts more than I read books. Since Covid, I’ve been tuning into a lot of content related to environmental issues, a topic that matters to me. One of my favorite podcasts is Serw, which is actually a YouTube channel but also offers long-format podcast episodes. Not everything resonates with me, but I appreciate the in-depth discussions and diverse perspectives.
When it comes to books, I’ve read several by Naomi Klein, whose philosophy aligns well with my own. However, I don’t read traditional books often. I read a lot in school out of obligation, but nowadays, I consume more content online. This might be against the current trend of reading personal development and entrepreneurship books, but I’ve tried a few, and they don’t always click with me. For example, The 4-Hour Workweek was hugely popular when I was in Chiang Mai—everyone recommended it—but I just couldn’t get into it.
A documentary I absolutely loved, though unrelated to entrepreneurship, is The Biggest Little Farm. It follows two people who, after a career change, start a biodynamic farm, letting nature restore its own balance. The film beautifully illustrates how ecosystems self-regulate over time. For instance, they initially struggled with a mole infestation, but these moles actually aerated the soil, which later helped them avoid flooding. Then, owls arrived and naturally controlled the mole population, followed by lynxes that further stabilized the ecosystem. It’s a really inspiring documentary, even if farming isn’t your goal.
Lastly, one website that had a massive impact on my life is Le Site du Zéro, now known as OpenClassrooms. Originally a platform for learning to code, it has expanded to offer courses on a wide range of subjects. The creator of the site is truly inspiring, and he has been featured in several great podcasts. Without a doubt, this website has played a major role in shaping my journey.
4. If you could set up a giant billboard in the middle of the Paradeplatz in Zurich, what would it say?
A great way to promote our coliving space would be to contrast two different lifestyles. On one side, we could show an image of our workspace with a breathtaking mountain view, and next to it, a picture of the same resident skiing through fresh powder after finishing their workday.
A quote from Paulo Coelho could reinforce the message: “If you think adventure is dangerous, try routine; it is lethal.” The goal is to encourage people to rethink their priorities and break free from the rat race.
A catchy tagline like “I live and work where you go on vacation” would perfectly sum up the spirit of coliving—combining work and an exceptional quality of life.
5. What is a coliving space? And what’s your role as managers?
A coliving space is designed for people who work remotely. It is usually a large house with dedicated work infrastructure, such as a coworking space, a conference room, and excellent WiFi. In addition to professional facilities, it offers shared spaces like a large communal kitchen, a living room, and even a small gym. The goal is to create a comfortable home in a natural setting, close to the mountains, while ensuring an optimal work environment.
The Role of the Manager
As managers, our role will evolve over time. Right now, since we just launched the coliving space, we handle everything ourselves: logistics, administration, cleaning, and minor renovations. However, in the long run, our goal is for the management to require less effort, more like overseeing a large shared house.
Daily Life at the Coliving
Residents have different work schedules, some following European time zones and others American ones. To foster a sense of community, we organize group dinners from Monday to Friday, where everyone takes turns cooking for the group. This ensures a daily moment of social interaction and strengthens connections.
Beyond work, we organize activities to help residents explore the region: hiking, mountain hut stays, walks around the village, game nights, and movie screenings. Another key aspect of coliving is skill sharing. For example, a resident specializing in artificial intelligence recently gave a talk about his field, inspiring an interior architect to collaborate with him and launch a business project.
The Coliving Spirit
Coliving is not just about living and working together—it’s a space for networking, learning, and creating new opportunities. Our job is to facilitate these interactions and encourage collaborations among residents. While we still handle most operational tasks ourselves, we plan to delegate some of them over time to focus more on community-building and enhancing the coliving experience.
6. What type of clients does it attract? Only digital nomads, or people from other walks of life?
Coliving attracts a much more diverse crowd than the usual stereotypes suggest. While there are developers, designers, and online trainers, many professionals from various industries also take advantage of remote work opportunities for a few months each year. For instance, we’ve hosted employees from Galaxus, as well as HR professionals and people from other fields. Some choose a mountain coliving like ours in Switzerland, while others prefer seaside locations like Tenerife.
The age range is also quite broad: our youngest resident was 22, the oldest 54, but in other colivings, we’ve met people as old as 75. A particularly interesting case was a chef in his 60s who came to write a book on Peruvian cuisine. He tested recipes and let us taste his dishes, making for a unique and memorable experience!
Ultimately, coliving is for anyone with the flexibility to work remotely. For example, my sister, a statistician at Lausanne’s public transport service, often stays with us because she can adjust her schedule. Similarly, a real estate agent from Martigny arranges her property visits once or twice a week while handling administrative tasks from our coliving. So, coliving isn’t just for digital nomads—it’s a much broader and more adaptable lifestyle solution.
7. Do you consider yourselves financially independent with all your passive income from the blog?
Since purchasing our coliving space on April 19, 2023, we have barely worked on our blog, yet our revenue has remained stable. In fact, last summer, we recorded our highest earnings ever, even though we weren’t actively working on it. It’s a bit ironic, but it proves that our past efforts continue to pay off.
That said, so-called “passive” income still requires prior effort and ongoing maintenance. You can’t just sit back forever, or performance will eventually decline. However, our financial situation gave us a safety net, unlike those with traditional jobs who would see their income drop to zero if they embarked on such an intense project as renovating a hotel.
Our blog and related products (books, etc.) generate around 80'000 CHF per year. It’s not an enormous amount, but it’s stable and requires almost no effort at this stage, apart from keeping the site online with a steady traffic flow. This source of income allows us to maintain a comfortable lifestyle while fully dedicating ourselves to our coliving project.
8. How much did the hotel cost? How much for the work? Total cost once complete?
We haven’t finished the renovations yet, but the hotel cost us CHF 870'000. It’s a large 600 m² building with 11 rooms, a separate apartment, and a ground floor that used to house a restaurant and a bar, which we have completely transformed. The purchase price is comparable to that of a three-room apartment in Geneva, but with significant renovation work required.
The building is old and, while it was still inhabited, it hadn’t been in operation for 12 years. We have a budget of CHF 500'000 for renovations, with CHF 400'000 allocated for the exterior (facade, insulation, windows, and roof) and CHF 100'000 for the interior. So far, we have invested about CHF 100'000 in interior renovations, bringing the total project budget to approximately CHF 1'350'000.
However, the exterior renovations have been delayed compared to our initial plans. One of the key aspects of this project is that we did almost all the interior work ourselves, with the help of volunteers throughout the summer. This allowed us to renovate a 600 m² building for less than CHF 100'000.
We expect to receive some government subsidies for energy-efficient renovations in Switzerland, but we are not relying too much on them. They might amount to 40'000 to 50'000 CHF, but they will take time to be disbursed. Additionally, since our building is located in a protected village center, we must comply with specific regulations, particularly regarding the stone roofing and solar panel installations.
Finally, we had planned for these costs in our initial budget. We took out a mortgage covering the entire project, including both the purchase and the renovations, rather than just a mortgage based on the purchase price.
9. How much did you save in labor costs by offering bed and board in exchange for help with the renovations?
We spent around CHF 100'000 on interior renovations, but by doing much of the work ourselves, we saved nearly an additional CHF 100'000. For example, hiring professional painters would have cost about CHF 50'000, while we bought high-quality paint for only CHF 2'000. Similarly, we installed 150 m² of flooring ourselves, resulting in substantial savings.
For us, this project is not just a financial investment aimed at generating returns—it is a true life project. We are passionate about coliving and wanted to learn how to renovate, as relying on contractors in Switzerland is difficult. Initially, we had no DIY experience, but we have learned a lot and are now much more independent.
A key element was organizing a collaborative construction project. We invited digital nomads and remote workers interested in coliving to help us in exchange for free accommodation. Over the summer, about ten volunteers contributed to the work, allowing us to make much faster progress. Of course, it required management, but by assigning them the simplest tasks, we optimized their help.
For more technical skills, we hired a renovation coach. He taught us new skills (plastering, painting, flooring, etc.) in one-day sessions, guided us on material and tool purchases, and corrected our work. This service, not well known in Switzerland, turned out to be extremely cost-effective, as it helped us work efficiently and avoid unnecessary expenses.
We also hired a carpenter for a few weeks to renovate the kitchen. He taught us how to use various tools and supervised the work, allowing us to complete most of the renovation ourselves.
Finally, this collaborative approach had a huge impact on the launch of our coliving. Many volunteers stayed or spread the word about the project. As a result, even before opening in September, we had strong demand, and by October, the coliving was fully booked thanks to word-of-mouth from these early participants.
10. Was it not difficult to control quality with other people working onsite?
We believe it all depends on the approach. If the goal is to invest in real estate and scale quickly, we probably wouldn’t have done a project like ours. But in our case, it was a personal project in which we invested ourselves immensely. Of course, we would do it again, but it’s clear that it requires total commitment.
Physically and mentally, it was extremely exhausting. By the end of the renovations, we were barely sleeping, waking up at 5 AM every day to manage every detail. In fact, we appeared on RTS in the Forum show, and several people told us that we looked younger since August. In reality, we had simply regained a normal sleep rhythm after four intense months that had literally aged us!
In terms of work quality, we did almost everything ourselves, except for the installation of fire doors and the electrical system, which we entrusted to professionals. Ironically, these were the two elements that disappointed us the most. Not that they were a disaster, but deadlines were difficult to meet, and the work was sometimes rushed because construction professionals are often overwhelmed and prioritize speed over precision. In the end, we were more satisfied with the work we did ourselves than with what the professionals delivered.
11. How much did you take out in a mortgage vs. own cash?
We faced some challenges in securing funding, especially with our modest income and an unproven business model. However, we had approximately CHF 500'000 in equity, and I inherited an apartment in Zurich, mortgage-free, which allowed us to take out a CHF 450'000 mortgage on the property. Since this property had been rented for over three years at more than 2,000 CHF per month, banks were willing to lend to us.
Technically, we have CHF 820'000 in mortgages, but only CHF 400'000 is allocated to our current project. We received several rejections from traditional banks, but thanks to our long-standing relationship with the Swiss alternative bank (ABS) and our status as shareholders, we were able to obtain preferential rates. This made negotiations easier, although securing the mortgage would have been much more difficult without my grandmother’s apartment.
We chose not to maximize our debt and took out less than the initially proposed amount. However, without my grandmother’s apartment, it would have been impossible to secure such a high level of funding. Additionally, we had to sell our own apartment to complete the financing.
Banks are often more reluctant to finance commercial projects, and since coliving is still an underdeveloped concept in Switzerland, we had to work hard to convince lenders. However, ABS believed in our project, and we were fortunate to have a representative who advocated for our case. In the end, we had a choice between several banks and opted for ABS because it supports projects like ours while offering preferential rates due to our shareholder status.
12. What mortgage rate did you obtain? SARON or fixed?
Fabienne, who has the numbers in front of her, will give you more details, but here’s what I can tell you: we decided to increase the mortgage on the already rented apartment, which allowed us to get a better rate than for our commercial project. We chose a rate of 2.75% for 7 years for the apartment (loan of CHF 400'000) and a rate of 2.98% for the commercial project.
For the coliving project, we opted for a mix of Saron, with a loan of CHF 100'000 at 2.38% when we signed. This rate has probably changed since. We also took fixed rates for 3, 4, and 7 years based on our financial plans. We have obligations to pay off in 6 to 8 years, which influences our repayment decisions. We tried to find a balance between paying off debt and managing it.
We’re not experts in optimization, but we know we’ll keep some debt because it’s in our best interest. The idea is to repay part of it now, but without trying to maximize everything. In any case, the current rates are not alarming for us, and if our project can’t handle this, it would be a sign that there’s an issue with the project.
13. What will be your monthly overheads for the coliving space?
Fixed monthly expenses are around 3,500 francs for low occupancy (e.g., no customers), with mortgage interest at 1,000 francs, tourist promotion tax and other small charges such as taxes. If the coliving apartment is full, costs rise to around 4,000 to 5,000 francs, due to the additional costs of space management, energy consumption and the supply of basic kitchen products such as coffee and oil.
Before the move, the apartment we owned cost around 1,300 francs a month. Today, although the project costs around 3,000 francs a month, we no longer have these housing costs, so we only spend 700 francs more while benefiting from a much larger living area.
The worst-case scenario was calculated in advance, and even in this case, the income would be sufficient to live on. Today, with 100% occupancy until March, forecasts have been far exceeded, and the situation is better than expected.
14. How much do you expect to make in turnover and profits once the coliving is fully up and running?
In 2025, the goal is to generate between CHF 120'000 and CHF 180'000 in revenue with an occupancy rate of 60-80%. However, this includes periods of closure for renovations, such as the creation of a gym in the basement, which will result in months without income.
Currently, the goal is not to make a profit, as all revenue is being reinvested in major renovations like installing a gym, replacing windows, and repairing the roof. The profit will come later once these projects are completed. For now, all the money is reinvested into the project.
On the expense side, the couple has reduced costs by living in the building, meaning they do not need to pay themselves a salary. The coliving project is covering their living expenses with passive income.
The gym, while personal, also serves to attract guests. In the mountains, the off-season is perfect for activities like climbing, and having an indoor climbing wall is a strong marketing tool to draw in guests during low season. The couple also loves climbing, so this project is both a passion and a business opportunity. The climbing wall, located in the basement, allows for adjusting the difficulty of workouts and provides a fun way to improve technical skills.
15. Before the coliving project: what was the breakdown of your income from the blog?
Bloggers are often assumed to earn money through press trips or sponsorship deals, but this is not the case for us. Our values don’t align with such practices, so we mainly rely on affiliate marketing, which is our primary income source. We work with companies whose products we genuinely use, such as Trails (a hiking app) and Leader (a site for technical gear, which we use for our ski equipment). This model works well for us because it’s based on authentic relationships and products we truly believe in.
In addition to affiliate marketing, we also earn revenue from our books. We have three books published by Hvétique Editions and three self-published ebooks. Our royalties generate about 20'000 francs per year, and our ebooks bring in about 10'000 francs annually. While this isn’t enough to live solely from writing, it’s a good supplementary income.
Our business model relies on several small income streams that, combined, allow us to live in Switzerland. During the COVID pandemic, our income from hotels and partnerships dropped, but the sales of our books, especially those about hiking, increased. This helped offset the losses. The key to our success lies in diversifying our income sources, which makes us less vulnerable to fluctuations.
16. After the coliving project: what is the expected breakdown of income?
At the beginning, we didn’t set very high financial goals for the coliving project. Our business plan anticipated about 2000 to 2500 francs per month in additional income, but we don’t really need it, as this money would be reinvested into the project. The medium-term goal is to make the coliving independent, so that we are no longer essential to its daily functioning. This includes hiring a manager to run the coliving and creating processes that will allow it to function on its own.
We believe a salary of 2500 francs for someone working 20 to 25 hours a week with free accommodation could attract motivated candidates, especially from abroad. However, the goal is not pure profitability, but rather to reinvest funds back into the project.
We also plan to hire a housekeeper once the coliving is more full, to delegate some tasks. Currently, we rely on volunteers, often people starting their own businesses or looking to save money. These volunteers work about 15 hours a week, alternating between cleaning tasks and community-building activities.
This model allows us to free up time to focus on other aspects of the project while maintaining a good atmosphere in the house.
17. How did you manage to take the psychological leap from “free and location-independent nomad” to “a sedentary life stuck in a specific place”?
At the beginning, our strong desire to travel was a major driving force, but over time, we found joy in staying longer in certain places. After a year of traveling, we realized we missed the mountains, and that led us to reflect on a larger project. The Covid period was a turning point, especially after our blog traffic dropped. It made us rethink our priorities.
It was during this time that the idea of the coliving emerged, but not just as a business. We wanted to create a project with a real local impact, in a small village. For example, our coliving in a village with 300 inhabitants brings in digital nomads who shop locally, which energizes the community. We are also working on a public coworking space in collaboration with the local municipality to create a place where residents and visitors can interact.
This project requires a more settled lifestyle, which we weren’t ready for a few years ago, but now it feels essential. We’ve found a good balance between our coliving residents, our outdoor activities, and our involvement in the local community. It’s a compromise, but it motivates us every day.
The decision to choose the location for our coliving was based on the importance of working with local authorities to develop sustainable projects. Even though the village is small and integration can be difficult, the coliving helps us connect with the local community.
Finally, our initial vision is taking shape little by little, with projects like the creation of a women’s arm wrestling league, which has been a huge success in the village. It’s an example of initiatives that both integrate the locals and create connections. The project is still in development, and we are excited to see where it will go.
18. Do you plan to leave someone else to run the coliving space if you want to go away again for 3-4 months?
For over 10 years, our passion for travel has driven us. Even though we’ve settled down, the desire to travel is still there. The coliving project, in the long term, will not just be something for us, but a space to welcome people with various projects and foster connections. We want the interactions within the coliving to happen naturally, without us having to constantly intervene, and for that, we need to set up the right processes. Our goal is to make the coliving less dependent on us—not just so we can travel, but to make it a sustainable project for the community.
We already have people considering moving to Les Haudères, which would be a real change for a village that has always experienced depopulation. If the coliving attracts more nomads, it could really energize the local community. We’re open to the idea of people investing financially and taking part in the management of the project in the long term. If the right partner comes along, we could even consider opening up the capital. The goal is for the project to last, even if, in 4 or 5 years, we no longer have the same energy or desires. The coliving must be able to survive our departure, and for that, it must be bigger than us. It needs to keep growing, and future generations must take it forward.
19. In 5 years’ time, you meet a friend who you haven’t seen for a long time. They ask you how you are and you tell them that you’re “better than ever, life couldn’t be any more wonderful”. Why?
There are about ten nomads who have bought apartments in Haudères. We have endless fondue sessions with amazing people. Our coliving is full, and we’re there whenever we feel like it. I’ve learned to ski in fresh powder while doing backcountry skiing, and we’ve become more outdoorsy than before. In five years, maybe I’ll show you a 6c in climbing, or we’ll be doing skinning in more exposed areas. The communal space is working great, and we’re creating lots of synergies by connecting people from outside with locals. That’s the long-term vision.
20. What do you fear most that could upset your coliving business model and make you have to shut up shop (as happened with BlackBerry and the iPhone)?
One key point we mentioned is that if the coliving space depended entirely on us and we lost interest in the project over time, it could collapse—which would be a shame. But otherwise, coliving has proven to be quite resilient. Even during COVID, coliving spaces were full because people couldn’t travel and needed a place to stay.
Remote work isn’t going anywhere, and the mountains seem like a safe bet for the future. Sadly, with climate change, we’re already seeing an impact—last summer, when temperatures in Sion hit over 40°C, people reached out asking if they could work from our coworking space. They called themselves “climate refugees” looking for cooler spots in the mountains.
Since coliving is fundamentally about human interaction, AI isn’t really a threat to the model. Plus, most of our guests come through word of mouth, so even if Google completely de-referenced us, we’d still be full. Unlike hotels, which need a high number of short-term guests, we operate on a different scale. Our guests stay an average of 4 to 6 weeks, so with just 40–50 people per year, we reach full capacity.
This winter, for instance, we already have a waitlist—our first winter season, and there’s demand. It won’t be like this year-round, but overall, the coliving niche is still in its early days. We’re confident that there’s room to grow in the coming years.
21. Do you plan to franchise your model, in order to own several coliving spaces in Switzerland or around the world?
Yes, we’ve thought about it, but no, we’re not planning to do it. Running a coliving franchise sounds like a massive job, and I want to maintain a decent quality of life.
Living here, we naturally want to get involved in our village, and we already have plenty of projects. Some are in progress, and once they’re completed—or abandoned—new ones will take their place. We’ll never run out of ideas, and if one day we do, maybe we’ll reconsider. But we’re not the kind of people who want to scale at all costs—that’s just not our vision.
22. On a daily basis, what is THE thing that still generates fulfilment/releases dopamine in your brain today?
This week, I really realized that I’ve made good life choices. On Wednesday morning, we went climbing with the coliving group, then I worked in the afternoon. Yesterday, I went ski touring for three hours in beautiful sunshine before getting back to work. This morning, we enjoyed the first ski runs of the season before resuming our projects. Having this kind of flexibility and being able to live like this is an incredible privilege. Plus, on some evenings, I don’t even have to cook, which allows me to focus on my work until late.
For me, the dopamine doesn’t come from the blog anymore, at least not right now—it’s all about the coliving experience. Meeting people, having deep conversations until 1 AM, sharing moments… And of course, the mountains and sports. I’m not as extreme as Benoît, but I still appreciate our Wednesday and Friday morning outings. More importantly, doing something meaningful is incredibly rewarding. When you believe in your project and work on something that truly matters to you, it gives you a deep sense of fulfillment.
And the best part is that we get to do this together. Working as a team is a real advantage. During the renovations this summer, we both had our tough moments, and having each other’s support made all the difference. Last week, Benoît was in England for a workshop. The house wasn’t full, so it was manageable, but by the end of the week, I couldn’t wait for him to come back—not just because I missed him, but because we truly rely on each other. When one of us is away, we immediately feel the imbalance.
23. As successful entrepreneurs, what is the challenge that you’re facing again today that you already came up against when you started novo-monde in 2012?!
We’ve always struggled to set aside time for ourselves. Back when we started freelancing in Chiang Mai, we were so absorbed in our work that we forgot to eat—until one of us finally gave in and went to get food for the other. Now, with the coliving, it’s even harder. We had planned to take one day off per week, but we never really stick to it. Even when we take a 10-day vacation, we end up filling it with tasks instead of actually resting.
That’s the challenge with passion projects—you never really stop. When it was just the blog, things were simpler. But now, between the coliving and everything else, finding balance is even harder. We’re trying to improve, and after 18 years together, it clearly works. But there’s always a new project, always something to do. It’s a constant challenge, and we know we’re not the only entrepreneurs dealing with this.
24. What do you think of the FIRE movement? (honestly speaking, straight up!)
We really identify with the frugal side of the FIRE movement, as we’ve always been very minimalist, and you’re probably even more focused on optimization. However, traditional investing doesn’t really resonate with us, mainly because of our values. We do have investments, but they are based more on our beliefs than on financial returns. For example, when we had 500'000 francs in savings, we didn’t focus on optimizing them because it wasn’t our priority. Real estate, however, is an investment that we’re comfortable with and don’t shy away from.
Regarding early retirement, we don’t envision spending our days on a beach sipping cocktails, because we like to stay active. What we appreciate about FIRE is the freedom it can give to work on projects we care about, without financial pressure. With our stable passive income, we’re somewhat living the FIRE model, although it’s not “retirement.” Our income allows us to pursue new projects without money being the primary motivation. This helps us avoid making decisions just for financial necessity, which gives us the freedom to follow our true desires.
25. Over the course of the last 12 months, every time you had to make an important decision that your brain couldn’t resolve on its own, what was your process and/or mental approach in order to make it?
I won’t lie, sometimes we open a bottle of red wine and talk things through to solve our problems. Of course, it’s not something we openly admit, but the truth is that sharing a bottle of red has often helped us overcome mental challenges and find solutions through conversation. It’s not exactly politically correct, but that’s the reality.
26. Who was your mentor during your progression between age 20 and 35? Why?
We’ve had people who really inspired us at different times, but I wouldn’t say they were our mentors. For example, there was a travel blogger, Alex Viso, whose videos of his world tour made us want to go on our own adventure. He was a huge inspiration back then. More recently, we’ve also followed people like Pat Flynn with his blog Smart Passive Income. Even though we don’t agree with all of his values, he gave us lots of ideas. At every stage of our journey, we’ve looked up to people who were ahead of us, and that always pushes us to move forward. That mindset, always looking ahead instead of behind, is what helps us progress. Now, in the co-living space, there are also people who are like our mentors. They’re friends, but their way of living and their vision really resonate with us, and we try to replicate what they’re doing.
27. My daughter aged 10-15 asks you: “Hey, Benoît and Fabienne! I’d like to set up my own business, but also travel, as well as have a bit of stability… What route do you recommend I take?
Listen, what we recommend is to go on a backpacking trip. It’s an incredibly formative experience. It pushes you to step out of your comfort zone and solve unexpected situations, and that’s what helps you grow. Also, we advise you to follow your passions, even if they’re a bit wild. If you want to become a unicorn trainer, go for it! It doesn’t matter if it’s not a conventional job. In Switzerland or France, even if things don’t go as planned, you can always bounce back. The important thing is to try and not be afraid to take risks. Honestly, as long as you’re doing something and continuing to learn, it’s never the end of the world.
Quick questions
28. Round-the-world trip or coliving?
Actually, it’s a bit of the mindset for both. Co-living, because you travel by meeting people, but you can also go on a world tour by stopping in places like that, it’s true.
29. Backpacking in a tent or couchsurfing?
Backpacking in a tent.
30. South America or Asia?
Without hesitation, I’d choose the same thing—South America for hiking, the nature, the wide open spaces. My dream is to go back there with a van.
31. What’s the best decision you’ve ever made regarding your “lifestyle”?
At first, the idea of going on a world tour seemed unthinkable, mainly because of other people’s concerns, not my own. But once I took the leap, I realized how much this lifestyle helped me. The hardest part isn’t leaving, it’s daring to do it without being held back by others’ fears.
32. What’s the worst decision you’ve ever made regarding your “lifestyle”?
I don’t know. Don’t say your wife! Nah, I don’t have an answer to that question.
33. What’s your best hiking recommendation near your coliving space?
For a hike with teenagers, spending a night in a mountain hut is a great experience. Here are two easy-access options, suitable for those without vertigo:
- Cabane de Prafleuri, above the Grande Dixence.
- Cabane des Aiguilles Rouges, with a descent to the Lac Bleu the next day—a stunning setting.
For a more challenging adventure, after a night at Aiguilles Rouges, you can hike up to the summit of Mont de l’Étoile. Departure at 4:30 AM with a headlamp to witness the sunrise, offering breathtaking views of the Dent Blanche and the Matterhorn.
What I took away from my interview with Fabienne and Benoît
Given the length of the transcription, I’ve put my notes in a dedicated article to be added soon :)
I’d like to thank Fabienne and Benoît once again for having given up an afternoon of their time to share their incredibly inspiring story.
